Curse

Shadowmoon · Jun 24, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Leachers like you make running a pain. If the runner ask for heals b4 you join the group, and then you decide to argue with him about it, all you are doin is griefing. If someone pulled what you did to me, I'd boot you, tell you to do the run yourself, then ignore you.
What makes me sick is that alot of people are agreeing with this griefer. If you don't like the run, leave.

Mourne · Jun 24, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

Leachers like you make running a pain. If the runner ask for heals b4 you join the group, and then you decide to argue with him about it, all you are doin is griefing. If someone pulled what you did to me, I'd boot you, tell you to do the run yourself, then ignore you.
What makes me sick is that alot of people are agreeing with this griefer. If you don't like the run, leave.

What people are agreeing with is the fact that runners are asking people to heal for them and STILL make them pay.
I brought this up in Doomlore today myself, and all I got was "Well then don't get a run, because you can't do it as fast without the 600 build" in which case I replied "Well apparently you can't do it without the people getting ran if you are having them do YOUR healing."

Shadowmoon · Jun 24, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

And when you join, you are agreeing to pay and heal. You are greifing if you join, then complain about having to heal. The 600 is doin 99% of the work, healing is a 1%, not worth not paying.

A11Eur0 · Jun 24, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Exactly, Shadow.

You're paying for a quick run, and the 600/smite duo performs that quick run. You can always get a group together and fight it, but it'll take 3x as long at least.

I can't stand people complaining about the cost of a CoF run and their requirement to do a little healing. You get 1.5k from the quest, plus any drops you get along the way, these more than make up for the 2k fee.

People like the OP and others similar are the reason there are so few runners for CoF anymore. It's just not worth the hassle.

Hell, when I was taking runs, I loved to heal the smiter. Essence bond on the tank(stacks with the 600's own essence bond, btw) and glimmer of light with 12 healing on my warrior.

And Mourne, the 600/smite duo can indeed run it without the passengers. It just takes longer. If they want to not heal, they can be there for over an hour. Their choice. If they heal, it's a half hour (with me at least, getting all charr, chests and spiders btw), and they still profit.

Kusandaa · Jun 24, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I'm sorry but smiters have the possibility to bring heals - as a smiter, I take heal sig. with 3 tactics AND IT WORKS. I don't even spam it all the time. I do NOT require outside heals, and if I run guildies, alliance members and friends through it it's up to them. I don't mind them bringing heals, but I certainly don't require them to. After all I run 'em for free...

When I take a run, I pretty much expect the same thing. Why should I pay to complete it with them? I really don't get it, sorry. I really don't. It's like paying someone else to run yourself... then again I took 2 runs, the duo asked for some people to take heals and one to go full heal.

On the other hand, I make more than 2k just getting ran (made over 15k last time I got ran). The price itself doesn't bother me at all... but if you rely on your party members to succeed something you can do with 2 people, that's not a "run"...

Lord Sojar · Jun 24, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

If your runner is super fast and can gather massive amounts of enemies at one time, then heal the stupid smiter. When I run CoF (which is like never anymore), I gather the entire fire dart room enemy pool (30+ baddies) and they go boom. Ogden without healing = goulash

Kikuta · Jun 24, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Also why would you afk and give up 1-2k in crap drops? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I don't care for the drops, I'm really only there for the rep points nowadays.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

Leachers like you make running a pain. If the runner ask for heals b4 you join the group, and then you decide to argue with him about it, all you are doin is griefing. If someone pulled what you did to me, I'd boot you, tell you to do the run yourself, then ignore you.
What makes me sick is that alot of people are agreeing with this griefer. If you don't like the run, leave.

You should take note that I have these arguments with the runners - and subsequently leave or get booted - in town before they even enter the dungeon? Half the time I'm not even in their god damn team, and they PM me first when I protest in local chat! How is that leeching, or grieving for that matter on my behalf?

You're just like the rest of them - "WTF OMG SUM1 FIGERED IT OWT WTF KICK HIM OMGOMGOMG".

super strokey · Jun 24, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I understand what your saying and ive had runs that never asked or needed it and i was fine with that. But honestly its maybe 1 cast or so a floor and thats it. My piss off is when runners die like 15 times and then still expect full price

Mr. Undisclosed · Jun 24, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Umm... 600rts ftw? No outside healing required.

Tom Swift · Jun 24, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

I don't mind helping heal, taking fury, rez, lod or even providing bip if they want. All those just make the run go faster without being a major pain to me.

But I won't stay if the smiter is an idiot and keeps using wrath before retribution. I'm sick of smiters that do it the wrong way and call you names when you point it out and then call you more names when you can't keep them alive.

I'll help but if you're gonna be dumb expect me to map out.

R.Shayne · Jun 24, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09

After reading all the post I have one thing to say, "I am so glade I stopped running!"

I stopped running before backfire was updated because of: AFK, Ursan Idiots, Scammers, DC, and just meeting people I couldn't stand to be near. Like so many other runners have said I am only doing it for friends now.

It doesn't matter if you heal or not the standard price is not going to go lower then 2k, anything lower then that it is not worth the runner’s time. Less then 2k and the runner can make more farming. If you feel the runner should not charge 2k then run it yourself or wait for someone to do a tip run, I always liked doing tip runs, more of a laid back run for me and funny to see what people tipped. Had everything from 5k to a Passage Scroll to the FoW. (You have to laugh when you complete a perfect run, zero death, did all hidden, and did all locked chest, and dealt with an idiot agro ursan the whole way, and the ursan idiot tips a FoW scroll).

If I have to Maintain Mending [Mending] and Succor [Succor] on the smite (succor helps the 600 too) that does not bother me. Pass up a hidden and watch how fast I leave. If you are going to insist on all hidden make sure you state so before the run starts.

Go to Doomlore shrine and you will always find more people wanting to be ran then they are runners. Want to know why a large number of good runners have stopped running, read this thread.

Arutima · Jun 24, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

if you really hate paying runners for cof... Just h/h it...i usually h/h it 2-3 times per days in hm, with signet smiters. Take about 40-50 minutes. And it gives me 7k+ per run, still.

Don't bash the poor 600 monks

samifly · Jun 24, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikuta

You should take note that I have these arguments with the runners - and subsequently leave or get booted - in town before they even enter the dungeon? Half the time I'm not even in their god damn team, and they PM me first when I protest in local chat! How is that leeching, or grieving for that matter on my behalf?

You're just like the rest of them - "WTF OMG SUM1 FIGERED IT OWT WTF KICK HIM OMGOMGOMG".

So you are just running around telling people their builds suck and them what to do? Classy.

Mouse at Large · Jun 24, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

I've been run in CoF a fair few times. I'll happily go as E/Mo healspammer - it's less boring than simple tagging alsong.

So I'm firmly in the "if you don't like being asked to bring healing, don't join the group" camp.

However, what I do have a problem with is if a runner advertises as being competent, keeps getting killed and then expects full payment. In my opinion, a half decent CoF runner must have a minimum level of competence to expect to get paid.

If you advertise a run for payment, and don't have the competence, expect people to leave - after all, not everyone has the time or patience to spend 90 minutes crawling through it (trust me - I've been on that run!)

Incandecree · Jun 24, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

I have been running the dungeon off and on since September when EotN was released. I have tweaked my builds for changes.

As for the smiter, I have two smiter setups. One is Mo/W with Heal Sig and the other is Me/Mo. Mo/W if no one wants to heal the smiters but it slows the run down a little as I am having to pull some out of Prot to place into tactics. If I know that people are willing to heal I will go with the Me/Mo Sig of Illusions smiter and max out my health as much as possible. The more health I have the more damage is going to be going to the smiter. I always ask when the group is assembled if they are going to heal. That tells me which smiter to use.

As for Light of Deldrimor, again I ask to see if someone is going to bring it or not. If no one has it in this day and age of GW I am more than happy to bring it but again it slows my run down. If someone brings LoD then I switch back to Air of Superiority with speeds up the run a bit due to not having to worry about conditions for the most part.

I guess it comes down to those that absolutely refuse to understand "time is money" and the more time in one run is less time for elsewhere.

Then you come down to the price. If I charge 2k for how I run the dungeon and someone has a problem with it I have no problem with not taking them. Sometimes I go with only a couple people and sometimes I go with a full party. It is a "free" economy and people can charge 1.5k if they wish. I will continue to go with 2k. I have fun doing the dungeon whether I am running it for myself or running it for others.

Squishy ftw · Jun 24, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I agree with the OP.

Why pay for a run in which you have to contribute for the run to succeed?
It's no longer a run IMO.

This is probably why I don't join these kind of runs.

Whenever I run CoF I make my smiter hero /W with healing signet, which is enough to keep him alive.

DarkGanni · Jun 24, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

It CAN be done without healing the smiter, however I agree most runners don't know how to do it and they always ask for players to heal them, personally I don't care about paying 2k as I always get them back and more.

But then again I'm a person who doesn't care for money since it's a game, no need to make such big fuss if you ask me.

- Ganni

ReZDoGG · Jun 24, 2008, 09:04 AM // 09:04

You shouldn't need anyone to do any healing to keep your Smiter alive if you know how to put good builds together

If you use Illusion of Weakness, combined with Signet of Devotion, the Smiter should survive any groups with banshees. I think people would rather bring Rebirth for you instead of heals... People usually bring it anyways. So let the players you are running do the resurrecting when it is needed, which with some people is rare. I do this with 600hp Rt/Mo and Spell Breaker monk, and it seems to work fine. You do have to manage your energy a bit more, as you won't beable to use BiP or BR on your hero. If you are good at doing CoF runs, you shouldn't need either of those, including Rebirth.

================================================== =======

Here are some sample builds I put together for Smiter. I haven't completely tested them out through whole CoF runs.

----------------------------------------

This one I use with my 600hp Rt/Mo: I haven't completely tested it out by going through all of CoF, but I did take on a group of 3 banshees no problem... and I believe that is probably the most you will find in one group, but even if there was 4 banshees it should survive it.

[build prof=mo/me div=12+3+1 Smi=10+3 Ill=8 name="CoF Spell Breaker Dual Monk" box][Spell Breaker][Signet of Devotion][Blessed Signet][Blessed Aura][Retribution][Holy Wrath][Balthazar's Spirit][Illusion of Weakness][/build]

You can also find it on my 600hp Rt/Mo guide here:

600hp Rt/Mo Vengeful Tanker - Dual HM farming with Spell Breaker Monk

Even if you don't use 600hp rt/mo, you can still find info here that could be useful on the Smiter part.

---------------------------------------------------------

Smiter Builds for 600hp Monk:

Mesmer/Mo for Smiter

[build prof=me/mo ill=12+3+1 heal=12 ins=3+1 box][Signet of Illusions][Signet of Rejuvenation][Ether Signet][Vital Blessing][Life Attunement][Retribution][Holy Wrath][Illusion of Weakness][/build]

Mo/Me Smiter: Cast Life Sheath just before you aggro a group with Banshees to help keep him alive easier, this should be the safest to go with.

[build prof=mo/me Smi=11+3 Pro=11+1 Div=6+1 ill=8 box][Life Sheath][signet of devotion][blessed signet][vital blessing][life attunement][retribution][holy wrath][illusion of weakness][/build]

================================================== ======

I am gonna test these Smiter builds (for 600hp Monk) out on the very first group of Undead. I'll let you know how they handle. They should work fine though. If anyone tries it out, let me know how it works for the whole CoF run.

I tested them both out, and they both seem to work fine. Mesmer of course is 16/16 Smiter, and Monk Smiter has enough attributes for 600hp monk and seems to be safer with Life Sheath.

Incandecree · Jun 24, 2008, 10:09 AM // 10:09

While this is good it will not help the smiter live through big pulls. The worst I have seen is pulling two groups together and there were 7 banshees between them. Even that taxes Heal Sig because each packet of damage from Retribution is 42 damage. Enough of them hitting you at once is a big spike. That is the worst case scenario but I have had may times 6 banshees in a group. Illusion of Weakness will help the smiter stay alive for 5 or 6 extra hits.

Life Sheath will only stop 3 to 4 hits and once things start hitting you won't have the energy to re-cast it.

On a side note I still haven't found a good reason why Life Attunement is in many of the CoF builds. To me it is a waste of a skill slot. With Life Attunement you can goto full health in 3 to 4 hits with Spirit Bond and without Life Attunement it is about 7 hits. It appears to be redundant.

ReZDoGG · Jun 24, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incandecree

While this is good it will not help the smiter live through big pulls. The worst I have seen is pulling two groups together and there were 7 banshees between them. Even that taxes Heal Sig because each packet of damage from Retribution is 42 damage. Enough of them hitting you at once is a big spike. That is the worst case scenario but I have had may times 6 banshees in a group. Illusion of Weakness will help the smiter stay alive for 5 or 6 extra hits.

Life Sheath will only stop 3 to 4 hits and once things start hitting you won't have the energy to re-cast it.

On a side note I still haven't found a good reason why Life Attunement is in many of the CoF builds. To me it is a waste of a skill slot. With Life Attunement you can goto full health in 3 to 4 hits with Spirit Bond and without Life Attunement it is about 7 hits. It appears to be redundant.

Illusion of Weakness definately helps, even though it barely triggers at all, but for 6-7 Banshees, it should help alot. As for Life Sheath, that is optional, but it is only needed to cast once of course. Life Sheath will reduce the first round of RoD, which can take pressure off of Smiter for a moment... the Monk build with Life Sheath should survive any amount of Banshees. It is also good to attack one of the banshees to get a chance of reduce the amount of damage of RoD from wand damage (if they don't cast it on other enemies of course). Both builds will work fine. I personally would rather use 600hp Rt/Mo, as it is twice as fast, and has 2 optional skill slots. I usually take LoD and Pain Inverter, which both help alot.

At the moment I am in CoF with 600hp mo/me with 16/16 mesmer, and so far so good. I always pull big groups of undead together myself.

As for Life Attunement, it does help to counter degen and damage that doesn't trigger Spirit Bond from certain enemies. Without it your health has a change of lowering from certain enemies. It is jus some extra to help the build be a bit more safe.

I completed CoF HM no problem as 600hp Mo/Me with Smiter Mo/Me build. I was by mysef also, so no one was healin my Smiter.